Interrogation (Sort Of)

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,: 2023

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Our lunch menu today includes the Mexican condiment chamoi, and we celebrate kitchen Klutzes. So bring out that burned dish and eat it proudly in the lunchroom. And if that menu is a little sparse, we get a little bit of a break today because it is the feast of St. Anthony in Spain, at least, and I know we're stretching that, but it's got the word feast in the title, right? Today's episode is the final episode from Patrick King's book how to Extract Info, Secrets, and Truth, and it tells us how we can take formal interrogation techniques those used by law enforcement and even TV detectives and adopt them for use in everyday life. Thanks for joining us today. From the dazzling world of fake psychic cold reading (that’s sarcasm), we now move on to the arguably more higher profile world of FBI agents, private detectives, and special investigators who are paid to dig out the truth no matter what. Just like with the fake psychics, however, we are not studying these proven interrogation techniques because we literally hope to one day be Jack Bauer in a dark room somewhere torturing the enemy. Rather, we can use some of the fascinating research and insights in this field to apply to our everyday lives. If you become really good at extracting information from people using the following techniques, your “target” will not even be aware that you have practiced any techniques at all.

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As with the tricks we’ve explored from faux psychics, the best interrogation techniques are not showy and pushy—instead, they’re subtle, gentle, and invisible. When you are mining for information in this way, you get used to the fact that you will seldom get a straight answer from anyone. But, what other information can you get in the process? What else is their answer telling you, and what other guesses could you make with what you are given? Let’s take a closer look. Technique 1: Playing It Cool Think about it: the whole reason you have to employ subtle techniques of info-extraction in the first place is because people, for whatever reason, are reluctant to share that information directly. If you give an impression of someone deliberately trying to force that information from the person, they will (correctly) perceive your questioning as a threat or intrusion and deliberately shut down. On the other hand, if you can practice the fine art of informality, you can get the information you want without having the person raise their guard, or feel suspicious or put on the spot. The important thing is that it does not feel like an interrogation to them.

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If you are relaxed, casual, and non-threatening, you will almost always get a more revealing response than if you come across as someone who wants something. You might even behave as if you were trying to ask a question or find information, but have now given it a rest and the “interrogation” is over. In an offhand way, as though to communicate that the information they share with you is only of minor importance anyway, ask your question on the way out, before the conversation officially begins, or in some other non-committal way. As an example, consider a manager who has an interview with a potential recruit, shakes their hand at the end of the meeting, and then invites them to a quick coffee in the cafeteria. The interviewee, feeling that the interview is over, relaxes a little, lets their guard down, and answers questions far more easily. The manager can slip in a pertinent question or elicit information just as he’s casually waving goodbye to the interviewee, who has no idea that the most important part of the meeting took place in those final few minutes. Many people have gotten complete confessions out of those who felt that the interrogation was paused or over, or else believed they were no longer being seriously listened to. It sounds so simple, but it’s remarkably effective: people put up defenses when they think they are being questioned, but drop them when they think they aren’t. Solution: question people without them really knowing they’re being questioned.

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For example, a policeman tells a suspect they’ll begin the questioning when his partner arrives. In the meantime, he takes out his phone to fiddle with it, curses his reception, and casually asks what network the suspect is on, seemingly not interested in the answer as he carries on fiddling with his phone. The suspect answers, feeling it’s nothing more than casual chit chat, unaware that this is the only piece of information the officers are really after. As another example, consider someone who says in a very relaxed manner, “Oh, okay, thanks for meeting me today. That’s all I had to talk to you about. Can I call you a cab? You’re heading east, right? Since you’re at the Marriott?" The question about where someone was staying might have come across as incredibly intrusive if it had been asked straight out, but here seems natural and innocent.

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: Pulling A Columbo In the: 1970

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If you like, you could further disarm the other person by giving the impression that you are not just harmless, but a little bit incompetent. Look a bit lost or confused. Ask a few questions that genuinely do not cost the person anything to answer, to build up a sense of trust. Then you can quietly slip in the question you really do want them to answer. You may not even ask a question at all. “Ask” indirectly by making a comment that the other person will then willingly (and seemingly of their own free will) volunteer information in response to. For example, say something you have a feeling they might vehemently disagree with—few people can resist correcting someone who’s wrong or stepping in to defend a choice or preference. Let’s say you have a suspicion your unfaithful spouse met a lover at a restaurant, and you, in casual chat, mention off-hand that the place has been shut for months. Then you keep quiet and notice whether they jump in and say, “No, it’s not.

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It’s definitely open." You could also appear to be talking about yourself—people are often more ready to share information about themselves when they feel they are simply agreeing with someone else. Maybe you want to find out who took your sandwich from the office fridge (not quite true detective work, sure, but important!). You casually mention the next day, “I had the most amazing ham and cheese sub yesterday!" If you do it casually enough, there’s a strong chance they chime in with, “Me too!" especially if you prime the conversation by asking several questions beforehand that you know they will inevitably agree with. Success—you now know who the sandwich thief is. The Columbo technique is also great for detecting someone who is lying to you. You could try repeating the same seemingly innocent question throughout the conversation, playing up being a little bit slow or forgetful, and watching carefully to see how the other person responds, maybe even setting the scene for them to make a mistake in their story or reveal a tiny clue you can follow up on.

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A doctor might be trying to get to the root of his patient’s claim that he never touches alcohol, and then casually chat to him about the weekend and his own trip to the pub to get the patient to accidentally confess that...that’s where they spent their weekend, too. Here’s the trick about both the Columbo technique and playing it cool, though: it doesn’t really matter if you get the one hundred percent perfect answer to your question. Any little bit of information is worth something. The person might not reply at all—but that doesn’t mean you cannot gather something from their body language or facial expression. Sometimes, a person’s sudden and obvious refusal to answer a question when they were happy to answer all others tells you everything you need to know. •Avoid Confrontation—don’t deliberately say, “I don’t believe you,” since nothing will get a person feeling more defensive, especially if they are lying or trying to hide something. •Don’t Make A Big Show Of Listening. Yes, you are paying ultra-close attention, but don’t broadcast this. Turn your body slightly away, act casual and relaxed, and even use a little humor to lower the perceived stakes of the interaction.

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•Play Dumb. Ask the other person to speak plainly and obviously, and explain their story carefully. While they are assuming you’re a bit dim, they may accidentally reveal more than they bargained for. “I forgot, where did you say you got your sandwich from?" •If In Doubt, Ask People To Repeat Themselves. This puts stress on any story they may be telling you without it appearing that you are interrogating them. Watch for signs of stress or inconsistencies. What happens when you press on those inconsistencies? A person telling the truth usually doesn’t care, but someone who is lying may grow flustered, defensive, or suddenly avoidant.

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•Maintain plausible deniability. At no point must it be obvious that you are fishing for information. Technique 3: False Replay This is another technique that’s great for catching out deception or lies. It works because liars have quite a difficult task to do—they need to construct and keep straight what could be quite a complex story. The more complex the story, however, the more chance there is of them muddling it up and revealing the lie. It takes a little extra cognitive power to hold two things in your mind—the truth and the lie. Remembering to tell the lie takes effort and time, but if you can trip up the liar quickly enough, they may make a mistake. One way to do this is to make a mistake for them, and see how they react. For example, tell them the story they told you all over again, but this time make a mistake with one of the details you suspect to be a lie.

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Make it seem like you have genuinely messed this detail up. Now, watch very closely how they respond to this “mistake." If someone is telling you the truth, they may be at most a little annoyed and keep reiterating the same thing again. If they’re not, though, they may suddenly become anxious. This is because you’ve given them a slightly bigger cognitive load, i.e. asked them to keep track of a complex thing—a mistake about a lie that they know is false but must pretend is true. When someone is trying to stay ahead of their story, they may appear distracted, stiff, agitated, angry, and suddenly close or tighten their body language. They may try to stop you from recounting the story or wave it all off by saying they can’t remember anyway or it doesn’t matter. One particularly useful response is if the person happily goes along with your mistake without attempting to correct you. Think about it: they think that you believe this new version and have forgotten what you told them earlier, so they may see no point in reiterating the “truth."

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Listen carefully to a person who retells their own story—truth-tellers tend to stick to the same story no matter what, telling it over and over again, whereas liars tend to overembellish, adding too much detail and seemingly adding more with every retelling in the belief that these details will make the lie seem more realistic. If you suspect that a particular detail is a lie, repeat the story back to them, paraphrasing the details, and then casually slip in what you think the truth is as a “mistake." A particularly effective faux-mistake to make is one that shines the other person in a good light—who would want to correct something flattering? If you do it quickly, or repeat it a few times here and there in different words, you may be surprised to find the other person slips up and agrees, or fails to correct you. Their brain registers this “mistake” as the truth (because it is), and in a confusing moment, they may default to the cognitively simpler explanation—i.e. the truth. Even if the false replay technique doesn’t confuse the person trying to lie, it may well fluster them. Most liars spend a little while rehearsing the fib beforehand so they can recite it as naturally as possible. But if you force them to tell their story in a different order, pick it apart, ask them unexpected questions about it, make mistakes yourself, play at being confused, and so on, this carefully rehearsed lie flies out the window and they need to think of something on their feet. This is where you are watching carefully to observe any signs of stress, distraction, agitation, or panic—sure signs they’re doing a little extra cognitive processing (i.e. telling a big fat lie!).

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Technique 4: Leading Questions So far, we have been using questions in two ways: first as a way to deliberately extract information from someone, and second to pose a topic or idea and then watch and interpret their reaction, regardless of their verbal response. But questions can be used in another way. Leading questions do exactly that—they lead the listener to certain thoughts and ideas and away from others. This technique might be especially useful if you already know or have a good idea of the “right” answer, i.e. you suspect a lie or want a confession. A leading question actively persuades thought in a particular direction, but also subtly shuts off other avenues, directing the conversation in one way and not in another. By now, you can probably guess that what makes a leading question is not just the words you use, but your tone of voice, body language, and so on. Use your tone, posture, and voice volume to “nudge” the other person in the direction you want them to go. There’s a reason that questioning of this kind is frowned upon in formal police interrogations, and for good reason: it’s an advanced technique that is not appropriate in all situations, and could even do more harm than good. If you are comfortable and skilled with other techniques discussed in this book, you can begin using leading questions, but simply be aware that doing so incorrectly may make your life more complicated!

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One way to lead someone is to ask a question that rests on a particular assumption; in answering the question, they confirm the assumption. If you wanted to determine the truth of the rumor that your workplace was firing a third of the staff soon, you could casually ask, “So how many people are getting laid off next quarter?" By doing so, you’re behaving as though the fact that there are people getting laid off is already a given. You might get lucky and have them say something like, “How do you know people are getting laid off?" This technique works because you are not asking an open-ended question like, “Are people getting laid off?" The question itself is framed as a yes/no choice, so the person will obviously take a moment to think about it. And then lie and say no. Another way to use questions to lead is to carefully choose when you will ask them, i.e. after a particular context is set, or you’ve “primed” the listener in some other way.

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You could share your opinion, for example, or make an emotional appeal, then ask your question: “Oh, it’s very common to lie on a tax return, we see it happen all the time. Have you ever done something like that?" “Ah, well, personally I can’t stand the woman. Was it you who left her that rude comment?" A common but effective technique is to get the other person to answer affirmatively to a whole string of questions first, eventually leading to a question you also want them to say yes to. This is a salesman’s tactic, but it can also be used to work around people’s defenses and create a kind of conversational momentum. “So you were at Dave’s house on Tuesday?" “Yup." “And that means you couldn’t possibly have been anywhere else."

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“Yup." “You were there till 9 p.m., and by that time, my bicycle had already been broken. Somehow." “Yup." “And Dave said you were with him that day because you asked him to say that." “Yup. I mean, uh ... ” (Sudden red face.) Try adding some conversational sticks and carrots in the mix to gently nudge a particular response: “This bill would cause major environmental havoc, obviously. So what are your feelings about it?"

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“Would you rather live in Anchorage or sweet, sunny California?" Note here, however, that unlike a salesman or marketer, you are not trying to manipulate someone to say what you want them to say, but to say the truth, which they may be withholding for whatever reason. So, if you suspect they hate the new bill or secretly want to move to California but haven’t told anyone, the above questions could help you tease out that information. In general, closed questions are invariably more leading than open ones. The fewer possible logical responses the person can give, the more you can herd them toward the answer you’re looking for. Make it easier and simpler for the other person to say “yes” if that’s what you’re looking for. So, use phrasing like, “Is it true that ... ?” or, “Do you agree that ... ?" Psychologically, questions framed this way almost seem to beg for agreement or an affirmative response. You could add a “questions tag” at the end for extra impact: “There’s something you’re not telling me, isn’t there?"

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“We can rely on your support, can’t we?" “Everyone agrees about this, don’t they?" Questions tags usually take this form, with a negated, abbreviated verb followed by a pronoun, for example: “... wouldn’t we?" “... didn’t they?" “... haven’t you?" Sometimes a question tag can be phrased in the positive to negate the previous sentence (for example, “You wouldn’t do that, would you?”), but for our purposes, this is less effective as, psychologically, it may be perceived as more open-ended than we’d like. Question tags are powerful things. They essentially take a statement and merely pose it as a question. But it’s not really a question, is it?

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(You see what I did there, right?) It’s something that’s presented as so obvious that nobody would seriously question it. In other words, the person asking this question is not expecting you to disagree or even giving you the option to—and that can be a surprisingly strong motivator to agree. As you can probably tell, changing the way you frame questions is a fascinating and complex skill to master, but be cautious. Information obtained under torture is useless. You don’t want to bully, coerce, or threaten people. You don’t want them to just say whatever they think you want to hear. Saying something like, “Come on, say you’ll do it. You wouldn’t say no to me, would you?” is likely to twist someone’s arm and make them do what you want.

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But if you want to extract genuine information from people, you may need to be a little subtler. Technique 5: Be Provocative This one is a little easier. “So, how did you do so well on that assignment? Did you just cheat and copy it all?" “Where were you the other night? Out blowing all your money at a strip club, I guess." “Why did you really come visit me, hm? Come to tell me some nasty gossip?" You ask a question and then immediately follow it up with quite an outrageous statement.

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Be a little rude, bordering on insulting if you like. This is a potent tool that needs to be used sparingly. Send off a little firecracker and watch very, very carefully what response you get. Shocked laughter or surprise is to be expected from people who don’t have much to hide. At worst, they’ll be puzzled and your “joke” will fall a little flat. No problem—you’re not trying to practice your stand up, but get closer to the truth. If, on the other hand, the person suddenly goes pale, responds with utter panic and fear, or immediately becomes disproportionately enraged, you can assume that you’ve hit a nerve and that your provocative statement is closer to fact than fiction. The only disadvantage of such a technique is that you may “show your hand” and put the other person on the defensive, so it’s best to use this approach when you’ve already tried everything else. The thing about lying, being evasive, avoidant, and so on is that it can hide easily in all the expected conventions of civilized conversation.

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Many deceptive or evasive people succeed precisely because they know that even if people have their doubts, few are cheeky enough to come out and say something directly. If you do, though, you create a momentary suspension of the conversational rules. And those few split seconds when the person is trying to react to your curve ball may be all you need to catch a glimpse of what they really think and feel. This technique is a little underhanded since you are deliberately creating a state of high emotion, intimidation, shame, or annoyance in the other person. But if you can do this, and unexpectedly, they may be on the back foot for just long enough for you to see through any lies. Once you’ve fired off this provocative shot, you can reel it in again by acting as though it was just a joke, or playing coy or innocent, as though you simply had no idea that this would cause such a reaction in them. Don’t worry about the provocative statement being true. That’s not the point. The point is to spur an emotional reaction that then points you to the truth one way or another.

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A calm, direct response is likely not concealing anything, as is a simple reiteration of the facts. Likewise, a person who comfortably responds as though the statement is a joke is probably not being evasive or dishonest. But “protesting too much” or getting emotional is a big clue you’ve hit a little too close to home. Compare: “Where were you the other night? Out blowing all your money at a strip club, I guess." Answer 1: “What? Don’t be silly. I was at work." Answer 2: “Haha, you got me, now my secret’s out.

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The place should give me a loyalty card at this point." Answer 3: “What! No! How could you even say that! That wasn’t a strip club; it was a gentleman’s lounge!" Finally, one clever way to use provocative statements is to in effect give people permission to make a much milder, more moderate statement—the one you want them to really confess to. So, let’s say you’re a doctor who wants a diabetic to admit that they’ve been cheating on their specially prescribed diet. “Why are your sugar levels this high? I bet you’ve eaten nothing but M&Ms for a month."

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“No way, I’ve been following the diet." “Really? Maybe you just ate a whole cake before you got here." “No ... ” “Half a cake?" “Well, I had a few cookies, that was all. Just a few ... ” Obviously, hyperbole like this may or may not work, and it depends on your relationship with the person and what’s appropriate. Naturally, some people will always respond emotionally to hyperbole or provocative statements, whether they are true or not, so keep this in mind and be careful. Technique 6: Gauge Response, Not Answers As we’ve seen, the kinds of questions we are learning to ask are questions whose literal answers we’re not strictly interested in. Rather, it’s the person’s overall response to the question itself that we are gauging, regardless of what they verbally answer to the question.

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The question can almost be thought of as a diversion or distraction—what we are really hoping for is to trigger an automatic and unguarded emotional or nonverbal reaction. Have you ever noticed how people basically never listen to what politicians say? The politician is lying, people know he is lying, and the game seems to be about figuring out the truth beyond the perfectly written but totally insincere public speech. This is a very cynical extreme, but it can point us to a useful axiom in the world of extracting information from others: that the information we want is often “between the lines." Ask a question. Even if you receive a lie or a non-answer in return, the person cannot help but simultaneously have a nonverbal reaction to your question. Analyze that. Do they seem alarmed, confused, hesitant, certain, happy, miserable, guarded, open? How does their response to an important question compare to their response to a trivial one?

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Does their reaction seem proportionate? Inappropriate? Unexpected? To gauge people’s emotional and nonverbal reactions, sneak in a few questions that look as though they’re there merely to test their understanding or agreement. So, for example, you can ask, “How do you feel about this?” or, “Have I understood that correctly?" or, “Does that make sense to you?" Here, tag questions can also be used to encourage a response and keep up the flow and momentum of the conversation. Of course, you already know the answer to these questions, but in asking them, you are encouraging the other person to respond to you. The more questions, the greater the response.

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While the other person will feel as though they are merely supplying you with verbal confirmation that they understand, etc., you are actually listening closely for another kind of information. The person being questioned may leave the conversation thinking that they have revealed nothing, but you will leave it having gathered a huge amount of nonverbal data. These techniques and approaches are better understood with examples. Like the cold reading strategies we discussed in the previous chapter, our “interrogation lite” techniques have considerable overlap and are best used in combination. Consider the following conversation that includes a little of everything. It’s a job interview where the interviewer suspects the candidate is not being entirely truthful, or at best is concealing a few key details that are important to know. Interviewer: Can I get you some coffee? Two sugars? We’ve just had a new machine put in.

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It’s great. It does this cool thing with the foam. (Blah blah blah about coffee—keeping things informal and unofficial to put the candidate at ease.) Candidate: Oh, wow, yeah, this is good coffee! I: Right? I think if a company can’t provide good coffee, there’s something seriously wrong with them. C: Exactly! (Laughs.) I: What was the coffee like at your old place?

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From your CV, it seems like you left under tense circumstances, didn’t you? (Still said pretty casually, with a tag question thrown in to make it easier to agree.) C: (Slightly uneasy.) Uh, well, huh. The company was doing a lot of restructuring. The role I was originally onboarded for changed a lot over the five years I was there ... ” I: You didn’t like those changes? (This is quite provocative, especially as it’s an interruption. Here, the interviewer watches for the response, not the answer.) C: (Laughs nervously.)

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Well, when you put it that way, I guess not! I respect what they’re doing with that department, but it wasn’t a good fit for me anymore. I: So you left? C: I did. (The interviewer notices how quick and easy this answer is compared to some of the others.) I: So is it that you were angry about the restructuring or that you feel that you couldn’t keep up? (Again, quite provocative, and a closed, leading question.) C: (Pausing to think.) Oh, it was neither.

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I just saw them going in a very different direction. I: Okay, makes sense. So you were there for seven years (Pauses to see if the candidate will correct this flattering “mistake” ... he doesn’t.) but you called it a day when they started to change things up ... C: Yeah, we were just not on the same page. (Note how this answer is not a simple “yes” like the previous one, and more of the same scripted story.) I: I mean, you look like the ideal employee on paper. They’d be crazy to let someone like you go. Come on, what did you do, steal the boss’s favorite mug or something? (One final provocative statement.)

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C: (Suddenly looking horrified.) God no. No. No I didn’t do that. (Awkward silence, with lots of uncomfortable body language.) The interviewer can’t help but notice this sudden shift. After twenty more minutes, the interviewer returns to this topic a few more times and notices that not only does the story of his leaving change subtly with each retelling, but that the candidate is increasingly agitated, distracted, and even angry. They conclude the interview and later, after some digging, find out that the candidate was in fact fired after suspicions of embezzlement and fraud. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Social Skills Coaching.

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Remember, you can join our author's email list at bitly pkconsulting and get more tips and tricks on how to be more likable, more charismatic, and more productive. Let's take a quick recap of today's. Episode to take our information extraction to the next level. We can use lighter, more relaxed versions of the interrogation techniques practiced by law enforcement. One key approach is to lower the person's defenses by not appearing to them as a threat. This can be done by being casual and informal, or even prying. When official interrogations are over, the trick is to behave as though you're not especially invested in their answer. The Colombo technique relies on this impression of casualness so that a question can be sneakily, slipped in, and answered while the person's guard is down. Play dumb.

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Ask people to repeat themselves and maintain a degree of plausible deniability. Hide questions and comments or statements that the other person can't help but respond to and reveal themselves. The false replay technique aims to confuse and disorient a liar and get them to slip up or confess. You repeat back their story, but make a mistake with a crucial detail and watch their reaction. A liar will most likely ignore it, while a truth teller will correct you. Liars are also most likely to grow agitated, angry, or distracted with being asked to retell their story in different ways or being asked about it repeatedly. Leading questions are typically closed questions that guide a person's response to where you suspect the truth lies. A question can be made with a built in assumption, or you could lead a person with priming statements or question tags. Being provocative is a great way to destabilize someone and observe their reaction.

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Disproportionate, anger, fear, or distraction indicate you've hit a nerve. The golden rule is to gauge a person's complete response to a question and not just their verbal answer. Use questions to trigger an emotional reaction and analyze this in context. And we'll wrap up today's episode by wishing happy birthday to Chris Evans, also known as Captain America. Jaden Newman Watch out for the first possible woman NBA player mary Kate Nashley olsen woohoo. Rumi. Carter Stevo. From the Jackass movies and TV show. I guess briefly from the history book today, you gained the right to remain silent.

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In: 1966