Integrating Fun for Growth: Jolynn Ledgerwood on Playful Practices

Jolynn Ledgerwood: 00:00:00

heard a, um, a quote a long time ago.

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It's not what's wrong with us,

it's what's happened to us.

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anybody tells you that you

shouldn't go see a counselor.

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Those are the people sadly,

that probably need it the most.

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You bring in play to work and or

playfulness, It gives everybody a voice.

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Russell Newton: Hello listeners and

welcome back to Social Skills Coaching,

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where you become more likable, more

charismatic, and more productive.

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And today we're gonna take a branch

off that more productive part, because

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our guest, Jolyn Ledgerwood is a

consultant, coach, therapist, counselor.

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Jolyn, please introduce yourself

to our listeners and we'll take

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the conversation from there.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: Absolutely.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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as you said, my name is Jolyn Ledgerwood.

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I started my business Elevate

Your Talent a year and a half ago.

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previously I'd worked in corporate

America in various different types.

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Of businesses, startups, cybersecurity,

law, all different types of areas where I

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was director of training and development.

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And absolutely loved training individuals

on how to be better at their work

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and happier find their innate talents

so that they could check those boxes

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while they were at work or while they

were at home, to make them feel like

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they're living a more fulfilled life.

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and doing that in the corporate setting.

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They normally want you to write

manuals and boring stuff like that.

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And so I went out on my own and

started to elevate your talent where

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I coach teams and individuals on

how to work better in the workplace.

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I use several different methodologies.

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The more the most popular is Lego series

play, and I also use Clifton Strengths

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Primal Question, Bob Goff's, dream Big.

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and just try to use those a

more well-rounded approach

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to coaching people and teams.

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Russell Newton: Serious play workshops.

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So those things combined.

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Tell us something about that.

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And then I want to get to the, the

picture on the top of your bookshelf.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: Yeah, sure.

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Absolutely.

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so years ago I was having lunch with

a friend that I hadn't spoken to in a

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really long time, and he brought with

him a small kit of six Lego pieces.

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There's four yellow and two

red, and he said, build a duck.

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And I thought, what are

whatcha talking about?

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And of course, it's a very abstract duck

because there's not even number pieces.

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And so I put it together and he

was like, tell me about your duck.

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And I was like.

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Okay, here's the feet, here's

the, you know, the explained it.

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And he had also built a deck and his

was completely different than mine.

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And he said, this is a

work that I've gotten into.

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It's called Lego Serious Play.

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It's allowing people to use

their hands to think through

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questions and problems and whatnot.

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And he said, and it's really cool.

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And I thought, oh my God.

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Yeah, that's really cool.

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So I looked into it.

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There's over 15,000 certified

facilitators overseas.

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There's maybe a hundred

here in the United States.

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And I thought, this is insane.

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Like why?

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Like we're Americans, we like to play.

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And the more I think Right, exactly.

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The more I thought about it, and the

more people I've spoken to, it's because.

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Americans, and again, please

nobody take this personally.

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We have this little box of what

work is supposed to look like, and

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if it doesn't fit in that little

bitty box, then it can't help us.

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We don't want any part of it.

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Forget it.

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Like we have work to do.

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We have real work to do.

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When you bring in play to work

and or playfulness, it doesn't

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matter what that looks like.

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It really does allow people

to let their guard down.

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It gives everybody a voice.

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It allows people to interact

with each other on a level

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that maybe they haven't before.

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And Lego Series play was

a great way to do that.

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And by doing that in my

business, it kind of helps.

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Propel and financially

support my Lego habit.

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Russell Newton: I was reminded of

a Rorschach test almost with your

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first, uh, with your first duck,

uh, and how that was put together.

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So that's, uh.

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I wouldn't be able to draw much conclusion

from it, but it's an interesting premise

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to base a conversation and a, and a

development, developing a relationship on.

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I'm reminded of like the

Executive Zen Garden.

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Right, that you, you'll see every, and

I have one, actually, I don't have it

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on the table here, but I do have one.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: Yeah.

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Russell Newton: if nothing else, a

stress ball or what used to be the

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wave, you know, the, the blue and clear

liquid thing that rocked back and forth,

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: Mm-hmm.

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Russell Newton: those types of things.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: shook it and then it

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Russell Newton: Exactly.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: everything.

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Russell Newton: That's right.

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The bubbles in and then started

leaking and all the, yeah.

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oops, I dropped it.

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Is that a bad thing?

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: And that's

the, you know, I understand.

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I don't like clutter on my desk either,

but there's plenty of days where I break

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out my Legos and try to work through,

you know, what does this look like

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to me and what do I want it to look

like and what's stopping me and why.

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And, it's, it's really fascinating.

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Russell Newton: Now I could give

someone a stack of Legos and ask

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them to build something and, you

know, coach them through something

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and, and come up with a product.

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But you're basing that entire

process on something, a, a much

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deeper understanding of things that

are going on in the background.

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So while we, the foreground is, is

looking at the Legos, the background,

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you must have a, um, a lot of

training, a lot of experience in.

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At least counseling, if not therapy.

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Can you tell us about your, your

background on that side of things?

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: You'll be surprised.

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I'm not a counselor, I'm

not a therapist, I'm a

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Russell Newton: Okay.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: And if in my

work I find that maybe that's a

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direction that I wanna encourage my

clients to go to, I absolutely will.

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I'm a huge advocate for mental health.

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I see a counselor regularly, my kids.

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so really my background's

a little bit different.

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and like I said, I worked from

the restaurant business up to, I

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did a small stint in retail and

then I went to IT cybersecurity.

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Here I am today.

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So I don't have any professional

education at a, at a university,

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but I have a ton of life experience.

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I've been certified in several

different methodologies, and I continue

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to want to learn new methodologies.

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I know there's so much out there that

resonate differently with different

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people, and so I try to use that

experience to help them through whatever

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it is that they might be going through.

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I recognized when I was doing, when there

would be like sales kickoff meetings that

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were in conference rooms that you take

high energy people, salesmen, saleswomen,

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you put them in a conference room or a.

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with tables, you know, eight pieces,

eight, eight people per table.

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And then you force them to listen

to a sales leader for two days.

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They're outta their

minds like they are gone.

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after the, and I noticed the first

day they would stand up, they'd

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kind of pace back and forth.

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They'd go to the, you know,

they were always like moving

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Russell Newton: Even that.

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Pardon the interruption.

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Even that is very school-like.

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Right?

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It goes back to fifties education.

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Sit at your assigned seat, listen

to what's going on and learn.

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Yeah.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: No,

you're exactly right.

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It's, this is how we're gonna teach you.

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I have to stand up here.

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You have to sit down there and

listen and this is important stuff.

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So you have to listen.

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Russell Newton: Listen well.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: You are right.

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Right.

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And they're not, because they're

not active, they're not engaged.

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They, it's, care how great.

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Of a speaker you have, if he's not a or

she's not a comedian, or not somebody that

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can bring a lot of humor into it, it's

gonna be really dry, boring information.

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And yes, it's important that

they learn, but process isn't

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about well I give it to you.

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It's how well are they accepting

that information and if they're

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not accepting that information.

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Then it's a complete loss.

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So the second day I brought in

Play-Doh and I put a piece of a little

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small conter, not a big one, just

a small container and every seat.

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And they came in, they're like,

what's up with the Play-Doh?

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And I'm like, you, it's yours.

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Whatever you wanna do with it, do with it.

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Well, is it for like an activity later?

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No.

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Just use it.

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And I'm telling you what Russell, I did

not, there was no scientific method.

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There was just like a hunch.

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That day, they sat at the tables, they

were listening to the conversation

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while they were playing, building

the most intricate designs with

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Play-Doh I have ever seen in my life.

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But it allowed me to see that,

that they need something to do.

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Like just throwing people in a

conference room and saying, let's

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brainstorm isn't gonna work.

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Like a lot of people don't, their

brains just don't work like that.

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One of the methodologies I

teach is strengths, Clifton

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strengths finders, which if, if.

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is not, and there's different,

34 different themes and talents.

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It rates your one through 34

that everybody has the same.

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It just depends on how they're rated.

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If the four or five strategic are not

in your top five, if I put you in a

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conference room, you just shut down.

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Your brain

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Russell Newton: Yeah.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: that way.

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You don't wanna inc.

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You don't wanna participate because that.

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When it comes to a new hire,

I am all about that new hire.

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I'm gonna make sure that

person feels wanted seen.

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I'm gonna help teach 'em

whatever they need to learn.

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But it's different ways

that our brains work.

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And when we force people to do

things that are against the way that

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their brain works, they shut down.

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They don't wanna be a part of it,

they can almost become negative

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and have like a really, tarnished

interpretation of what's happening.

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but yeah, the A DHD, it manifests

in so many different ways.

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And it manifests different in everybody.

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I heard a, a quote a long time ago.

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It's not what's wrong with us,

it's what's happened to us.

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Russell Newton: When you say

learner, of course you replace that

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with person because that applies

in whatever the situation is.

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Business, family, social,

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: Yep.

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Russell Newton: whatever.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: Yeah,

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Russell Newton: say that

quote again for me, please.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: it's

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Russell Newton: It

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: what's wrong with

you, it's what's what happened to you.

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Russell Newton: that,

that's really strong.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: Yeah,

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Russell Newton: yeah, we should

have that plastered in a, in a

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lot of classrooms and, a lot of,

business offices around the country.

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What would you say to a listener

who, Is on the borderline.

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Maybe.

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You know, they, they, obviously

they're listening to the podcast.

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They may be reading materials

and, you know, making some

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progress, trying some things.

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But there seems to be a roadblock

or something they don't understand,

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something they can't get past.

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Maybe they're hesitant about the,

again, stigma of having counseling.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: Like I said earlier,

I am a huge advocate for mental health.

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I also recognize that a particular

counselor is not gonna provide the

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same result to different people.

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Russell Newton: Exactly.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: recommendation is

to always talk to somebody, like if you

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find a counselor that you really enjoy.

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Talk to them.

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If you find a coach that you feel

like can really tap into what you

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need and is driving you and pushing

you forward to be better and to.

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Sometimes we can't heal those wounds

and we can't heal that trauma, but

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we can learn how to deal with it.

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and that's been huge

in my personal journey.

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but people that are struggling,

like find somebody that you feel

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comfortable talking to, it doesn't

have to be a licensed professional.

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Sometimes that's helpful

depending on how deep and.

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How much it's affecting your life.

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Maybe that's important, but if you

have a pastor minister that's important

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to you, or a dear family friend,

maybe a friend of your parents that

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was part of you growing up that may

understand some of those things about

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what you went through, now more than

ever, mental health is being accepted.

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Russell Newton: Right.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: anybody

tells you that that's.

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Not okay.

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Or, oh, you shouldn't go see a counselor.

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Those are the people sadly,

that probably need it the most.

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So

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what you need and get the help

that you need depending on wherever

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you're sitting, and know that

you're worthy and of being better.

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You are more than enough to bring to

the table, in your space, wherever

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that space looks like for you.

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But you are loved and you are.

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Important to the people

that are around you.

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So talk to somebody and find somebody

that can really listen to you and can

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help you and kind of see where you are and

where you wanna go, and can give you some

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really practical tips on how to get there.

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If you don't know where to start,

talk to people in your community or,

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know, talk to people that you know and

just you guys know of any counselors

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I can start talking to or call a

counselor, like you said, just do intake

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interviews and talk to people and see

if it's gonna be a good fit for you.

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They should not charge side note for

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Russell Newton: Exactly.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: just to make

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Russell Newton: Good point.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: But yeah,

I mean, health is really,

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Russell Newton: I.

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Jolynn Ledgerwood: and the hierarchy,

depending on your faith, you and

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then your spouse, and then your

kids, and then everything else.

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And on the top of mostly

all of those is you.

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'cause if you're not a healthy you,

you can't be healthy for anybody else.

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You can't be present and, aware

of all the things if you're

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struggling in your own space.

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yeah, elevate your talent.co

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or you can find me on

LinkedIn, Jolyn Ledgerwood.

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I also have a personal coaching

website called Jolyn Ledge.

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Coach, you're more than welcome to

reach out there, and individual time.

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I, you know, I wanna talk about

what's going on in your world.

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I'm gonna ask challenging questions.

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I'll send you some Legos that we can play

with and kind of work through some things.

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but yeah, I just, I take an individual

approach, like, what are you looking for?

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How can I help you?

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How often do you wanna meet?

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There's all types of, ways, and I, you

know, you mentioned it earlier, it's

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not just you as a person and who you

are, it's who you are as a father and

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who you are as a employee or who you

are as a leader or who you are as a dad.

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What makes you happy?

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What drives you, what makes you feel good?

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You know, all those things.

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And the thing about strengths is once

I get those results, I can go, okay,

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now how can we apply these to work?

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How can we apply these to home and

how can we apply these to being a

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dad or being a whatever, and what do

they really mean to you individually?

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my podcast is called Play for Performance.

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It's where I interview other play

practitioners in the workplace.

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and it's people that bring fun.

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It's people that bring rest.

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It's people that bring all different

types of playfulness into the workplace.

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And I, it's really fun to do.

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I hope you enjoy it as well.

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and I am on YouTube, Spotify,

all the different places.

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of right now, we have a

limited number released.

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I had a.

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Unfortunate clog in my schedule

over the last couple of months.

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So we are working to get those released

a little bit, a little bit quicker.

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And, on a more steady basis, I

do have a newsletter on LinkedIn.

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like I said, I'm a big advocate for

mental health and, and you know, if

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it's not play to get th you through

what you're working through, yeah,

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find somebody that can help you 'cause

life's too short to live miserable.

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: 00:14:33

if we can find, just a piece of happiness

and how to grow that within your

314

: 00:14:36

space, I think that's very healthy.

315

: 00:14:38

And it's been a pleasure

being on your show.

316

: 00:14:39

Thank you so much.

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: 00:14:40

I'm, I'm, I really do appreciate it.

318

: 00:14:42

It's been awesome.