Always Say “Yes, AND…”
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• This chapter is about how to steer conversations to different topics without making things seem restrictive. One critical aspect of talking to people is ability to transition between topics seamlessly. Many people struggle with this because they often want to discuss specific things and end up making the conversation rigid.
• The key rule to be remembered here is the “yes, and” rule. Whenever someone states a proposition, your response should be to agree to it, and contribute a line that will keep the conversation going. Simply agreeing isn’t enough, since it brings the conversation to a dead end. Disagreeing is even worse, because it might make you come across as combative and unsympathetic.
• Don’t be afraid to enter into conversational topics that you don’t know much about. You might just end up learning something new, and you’ll see that your fears about coming across as dumb are unfounded. If you keep conversations open-ended, people will naturally want to talk to you because they will feel like they can share anything with you.
• A more negative version of the “yes, and” rule is the “yes, but” rule. It’s similar, but the latter immediately makes the other person think of you as argumentative. This is because, unlike the “yes, and” rule, it doesn’t help the conversation flow.
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Transcript
Hello listeners, it's March 20th, 2024, and you're tuned in to Social Skills Coaching
Speaker:where you become more likeable, more charismatic, and more productive.
Speaker:In this episode, we're diving into the world of improv comedy and how it can improve your
Speaker:conversations.
Speaker:As a book, aptly titled, Improve Your Conversations by Patrick King, highlights a rule that can
Speaker:completely transform how you engage with others.
Speaker:Always say, yes, and.
Speaker:So let's get right into it.
Speaker:We're going to tackle some common conversation roadblocks and show you how to overcome them.
Speaker:Rule of improv comedy.
Speaker:In response to someone else's suggestion, thought, or topic, always say yes and, which
Speaker:means that you drop your train of thought, adopt theirs, and add something to keep the
Speaker:conversation flowing.
Speaker:This is likely the one improv comedy method you may have heard of, and there's good reason
Speaker:because it's so effective.
Speaker:It's one of the first rules taught to beginners and was taught to me on the first day of my
Speaker:workshop.
Speaker:Here's how this works in an improv comedy performance.
Speaker:Wait, look to your left.
Speaker:What is that?
Speaker:Is that?
Speaker:Is that a Godzilla monster?
Speaker:Oh my gosh, you're right, and it seems to have titanium armor and a laser mounted to
Speaker:its head.
Speaker:The first person asserted something, and the second person followed their lead, agreed,
Speaker:and even added an element for good measure.
Speaker:This rule is about how to keep an open mind and seize the power of possibility in your
Speaker:conversations.
Speaker:There are a few specific elements to this rule.
Speaker:The first element is that you are, some might say blindly, dropping whatever thought you
Speaker:had or story you wanted to tell.
Speaker:Don't get too comfortable with any grand plans.
Speaker:Remember, the conversation has to flow.
Speaker:It's as though you've been thrown a ball.
Speaker:Put down whatever you're holding so you can catch that ball and run with it.
Speaker:This is the most difficult part for most people.
Speaker:We enjoy sharing our thoughts with others, and sometimes we just want to talk about ourselves.
Speaker:That compulsion usually lacks balance, and people that aren't consciously aware of this
Speaker:rule typically lack the self-awareness to realize that others aren't enjoying hearing
Speaker:about every detail of their lives.
Speaker:This first part takes discipline and practice, because even if we're not conversationally
Speaker:well-centered, sometimes we just want to finish or articulate our thoughts.
Speaker:We can, but we should realize that it might be detrimental to the flow of the conversation,
Speaker:which is the overarching goal.
Speaker:The second element is to agree with the other person's assertion.
Speaker:You take it as true and accept it.
Speaker:You don't deny or argue with it.
Speaker:It's now a fact that you are operating from.
Speaker:You don't have to outright agree with it.
Speaker:Your goal is to let the other person know that you have accepted it as the new topic.
Speaker:Remember, there are no arguments or debates in improv comedy, only collaboration and teamwork.
Speaker:Therefore, you are collaborating with your teammate on this new topic.
Speaker:But the great thing is that the moment you accept this new turn in the play, you're
Speaker:back in the game again, and you can add your own piece once more.
Speaker:It can be a wonderful thing to relinquish control and your position in the center of
Speaker:the storytelling and yet somehow feeling more intimately bound up in the flow of the story.
Speaker:The third element is the part that truly signals to people that you are fully on board with
Speaker:them.
Speaker:You agree with them and then add another comment to build upon what they said.
Speaker:It shows that you've found something interesting and noteworthy about the topic as well, which
Speaker:further encourages them to speak about it.
Speaker:Going with the flow.
Speaker:There are many overall effects to the rule.
Speaker:The first is that you are the opposite of a filter.
Speaker:Nothing is taboo, inappropriate, or too unimportant for you to speak about.
Speaker:You're happy to discuss anything and you can add something to any topic.
Speaker:Where others might balk and shy away, you'll be the first to say yes and engage further.
Speaker:People who feel like they can open up to you and be vulnerable with you, which is no small
Speaker:feat.
Speaker:Conversations will feel fresh, genuine, and even creative.
Speaker:Second, it keeps an immaculate conversational flow because you are seamlessly entering
Speaker:a new and foreign topic, despite what was discussed just prior.
Speaker:This rule keeps things smooth, whereas people who fight to jump back to the prior topic
Speaker:of discussion can seem selfish, stilted, or just plain awkward.
Speaker:And of course, adopting the mindset of this rule means that you are collaborating with
Speaker:the person you're speaking to.
Speaker:No matter what they bring to the table, you'll work with them to make a good discussion from
Speaker:it.
Speaker:At its root, this is a chapter about recognizing where people may want to go in a conversation
Speaker:and meeting them there instead of steering it back toward a topic that you want to focus
Speaker:on.
Speaker:We let go of the idea of the conversation we want to have and embrace the one that is
Speaker:actually happening right in front of us.
Speaker:Suppose someone says to you, health insurance is so expensive these days.
Speaker:You can handle this assertion in many ways.
Speaker:You can simply refuse it.
Speaker:No, I get it super cheap, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker:How do you even feel to read that?
Speaker:It's a statement that obliterates conversational flow and can sound borderline confrontational.
Speaker:At the very least, it's argumentative because you've completely contradicted someone else's
Speaker:experience, putting them on the defensive.
Speaker:You can agree with it?
Speaker:Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker:Well, where does the conversation go from here?
Speaker:An acknowledgement by itself is conversational dead space because you've bounced the ball
Speaker:back to the other person with nothing behind it.
Speaker:Finally, you can use yes and.
Speaker:Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker:Seems like it's been going up forever, right?
Speaker:Note that you don't need an explicit fact about health insurance, just an additional
Speaker:comment on the general topic.
Speaker:This means you don't actually need to know much about the topics presented.
Speaker:You just have to be able to give a general statement, which is far easier.
Speaker:This version of the response is by far the superior one because it actually spurs on
Speaker:the conversation and doesn't stop it dead in its tracks like the others do.
Speaker:Notice that this response isn't necessarily clever or witty or capable of completely blowing
Speaker:the mind of the other person, but it keeps things going.
Speaker:Another example.
Speaker:I love pepperoni pizza so much.
Speaker:Here's the disagreeing reply.
Speaker:Pepperoni tastes like the cardboard box that the pizza is served in.
Speaker:That's not going to do much for rapport.
Speaker:Here's the agreeing only reply.
Speaker:Yeah, totally.
Speaker:It's the best.
Speaker:Again, a simple acknowledgement is just a nod of the head.
Speaker:It doesn't add anything and doesn't give people anything to comment further on.
Speaker:In fact, it's one of the leading causes for awkward silences.
Speaker:Here's the yes and reply.
Speaker:Yeah, it's pretty great.
Speaker:I love mushrooms too, but never sardines.
Speaker:See how the sentiment is agreed with and expanded upon?
Speaker:The expansion wasn't directly about pepperonis, but added to the conversation nonetheless.
Speaker:This shows your conversation partner that you're on the same page as them by taking
Speaker:them deeper into the topic, no matter how shallow that they brought up.
Speaker:You display a willingness to engage on anything.
Speaker:Instead of walling off a conversation, highlight your emotional engagement in the other person
Speaker:by adding to it.
Speaker:It's not about agreement or disagreement.
Speaker:It's about flow.
Speaker:It's just as important to realize how not to respond here.
Speaker:If you respond in the first two ways as shown in the examples, you'll repel people far
Speaker:more than you realize.
Speaker:You want to send a signal to others that their words are important to you.
Speaker:Remember that the overall goal is to create a pleasurable experience and nothing can be
Speaker:more pleasurable than feeling valued and validated.
Speaker:This makes them seek out your company even more.
Speaker:One more example for good measure.
Speaker:These shoes are pretty old.
Speaker:I want new ones.
Speaker:The argumentative answer.
Speaker:You don't need them.
Speaker:The agreeing only answer.
Speaker:Yeah, I guess.
Speaker:The yes and answer.
Speaker:Yeah, I guess.
Speaker:Seems like you've had them for a decade.
Speaker:Now, let's try something slightly different.
Speaker:I just read that the sky is blue because the sky is the eyeball of a giant bird.
Speaker:This is obviously something that's difficult to agree with.
Speaker:You can't really respond positively here without lying through your teeth.
Speaker:In instances where you find it difficult to agree with the sentiment of people's words,
Speaker:substitute yes and with yes, really?
Speaker:You may not necessarily agree, but the beauty of the phrasing is that you're not opposing
Speaker:the other person explicitly, which keeps their guard down and keeps confrontation from rising.
Speaker:It essentially creates an agreeable context for discussion and mutual understanding.
Speaker:The really statement also isn't an explicit refusal.
Speaker:How might you answer the assertion from earlier about the sky and the giant eyeball?
Speaker:Oh, interesting.
Speaker:That sounds like something I may have heard before.
Speaker:Where did you hear about that?
Speaker:You've not accepted their assertion, but you haven't denied it in a way that will raise
Speaker:their defenses.
Speaker:All you've done is raise innocent curiosity and interest in the topic, which is sometimes
Speaker:as good as it gets for wild assertions.
Speaker:Where yes and allows you to respond in instances where you can agree and discuss freely.
Speaker:Yes, really, is for situations where you want to disagree mightily.
Speaker:It's more effective because it softens the negative impact and also attempts to find
Speaker:common ground in the understanding.
Speaker:Here we see that often in conversation, it's not really about the content, but about the
Speaker:emotion, the intention behind the words, the vibe, the flow.
Speaker:You can approach what your conversation partner says in a closed off hostile way, or you can
Speaker:be open and receptive to it, but that's not the same as disagreeing or agreeing.
Speaker:You can hold any opinion at all about another player's next step while still valuing an
Speaker:ongoing dynamic with them.
Speaker:Let's contrast both of those versions of this improv comedy rule with yes, but a more
Speaker:negative spin.
Speaker:You immediately come off as combative.
Speaker:You come off as arguing or trying to correct the other person.
Speaker:This turns the conversation into a power struggle.
Speaker:Instead of an ally, you come off as an adversary obviously trying to take control of the agenda.
Speaker:Recall that improv is about accomplishing a shared goal.
Speaker:This requires flow, working together, and accepting what other people bring to the table
Speaker:regardless of what it is.
Speaker:That's the essence of yes and, and the opposite of yes but.
Speaker:There are no right or wrong answers, only answers that lead to flow and those that do not.
Speaker:A great conversation has a million different directions and you must be open to all of them.
Speaker:Does this sound like a lot of work with a burden falling solely on you most of the time?
Speaker:The unfortunate truth is most people won't help you out here, so it's up to you to create
Speaker:the kind of connections and interactions you want.
Speaker:Going to the root of no but.
Speaker:What stops people from just being open-ended and receptive in conversations?
Speaker:What makes them say no but instead of yes and?
Speaker:To get into the psychology of conversation for a moment.
Speaker:What are the eternal scripts we all tell ourselves that get in the way of just being there with
Speaker:our conversation partner, going with the flow?
Speaker:If you can get to the root of these assumptions, beliefs, and values, you can stay vigilant
Speaker:for when they crop up and threaten to derail things.
Speaker:You can start to gently shift your perspective and, in time, become a better conversationalist.
Speaker:A common script goes like this, I don't know anything about this topic, so I'd better steer
Speaker:things toward familiar territory.
Speaker:You might not like following a new thread or turn in a conversation because, unconsciously,
Speaker:we're worried that it will take us out of our comfort zone and into a place where we're
Speaker:less sure of our ability to talk with authority.
Speaker:But you can see how this may hurt a budding conversation.
Speaker:If you notice this tendency in yourself, try to remember that conversation is not about
Speaker:knowledge.
Speaker:You're not doing an interview or oral exam, and you don't get points for appearing wise
Speaker:and all-knowing.
Speaker:Being good to talk to is more about willingness to listen, empathy, and playfulness.
Speaker:In fact, the fewer knowns there are in the interaction, the better.
Speaker:If you're worried the other person is going to talk about a topic you can't contribute
Speaker:to, relax, give them the floor for a moment, ask questions, give them the opportunity to
Speaker:teach you.
Speaker:I guarantee that in a while you'll realize that you have plenty to weigh in on whatever
Speaker:the topic.
Speaker:Closely related to this inner script is the fear that jumping in to offer yes and phrasing
Speaker:will make you look dumb.
Speaker:Have you ever watched interviews with some of the great comics and comedians?
Speaker:Many of them are astoundingly smart, even, and maybe especially those that are known
Speaker:for the goofiest routines.
Speaker:In other words, what we normally think of as intelligence isn't really necessary for
Speaker:good conversation, improv, or stand-up.
Speaker:If you're someone who's afraid of adding to conversations or speaking up, keep in
Speaker:mind that it's never as bad as you think it will be.
Speaker:On the one hand, people are often quite focused on themselves and will not be closely analyzing
Speaker:everything you say to decide whether you're an idiot or not.
Speaker:On the other hand, even if something you say does flop completely, so what?
Speaker:The beauty of a fluid, dynamic, and moving conversation is that it keeps going.
Speaker:Just get back up, dust yourself off, and carry on.
Speaker:The truth is that even if you do put your foot in it, most people won't remember the
Speaker:incident in a day or two anyway, and messing up here and there teaches you a great lesson.
Speaker:How to be humble and use a little humor to get through awkward moments.
Speaker:Laugh at yourself, then move on.
Speaker:Finally, a common script or belief that keeps people out of good improv flow is, I don't
Speaker:have the right to add my own two cents here.
Speaker:Low self-esteem can make you feel like you don't really belong in a conversation or that
Speaker:you need to let others lead.
Speaker:Some people unconsciously feel that they aren't really entitled to get up and steer the conversation
Speaker:in a way that they want to.
Speaker:Blame it on culture, upbringing, prejudice, or whatever else.
Speaker:Many people think that actively grabbing hold of a conversation and running with it is a
Speaker:little selfish or rude or for those life and soul type people and not them.
Speaker:Only consistent practice will help shift this mindset.
Speaker:You have every right to speak up, to be yourself, to change the topic, to have an opinion, to
Speaker:participate, and you don't need to wait for an invitation from anybody.
Speaker:Think of it from the other side.
Speaker:Who's more interesting to talk to, the reserved, unconfident person with nothing to say, or
Speaker:the person who confidently brings themselves and their reality to the table?
Speaker:Takeaways
Speaker:This chapter is about how to steer conversations to different topics without making things
Speaker:seem restrictive.
Speaker:One critical aspect of talking to people is the ability to transition between topics seamlessly.
Speaker:Many people struggle with this because they often want to discuss specific things and
Speaker:end up making the conversation rigid.
Speaker:The key rule to be remembered here is the yes and rule.
Speaker:Whenever someone states a proposition, your response should be to agree to it and contribute
Speaker:a line that will keep the conversation going.
Speaker:Simply agreeing isn't enough since it brings the conversation to a dead end.
Speaker:Disagreeing is even worse because it might make you come across as combative and unsympathetic.
Speaker:Don't be afraid to enter into conversational topics that you don't know much about.
Speaker:You might just end up learning something new and you'll see that your fears about coming
Speaker:across as dumb are unfounded.
Speaker:If you keep conversations open-ended, people will naturally want to talk to you because
Speaker:they will feel like they can share anything with you.
Speaker:A more negative version of the yes and rule is the yes but rule.
Speaker:It's similar, but the latter immediately makes the other person think of you as argumentative.
Speaker:This is because, unlike the yes and rule, it doesn't help the conversation flow.
Speaker:Alright listeners, that's all we have time for today.
Speaker:We hope you learned a valuable lesson from the improv world and are ready to incorporate
Speaker:yes and into your conversations.
Speaker:For more social skills, tips and tricks, be sure to subscribe to Social Skills Coaching
Speaker:wherever you get your podcasts in.
Speaker:Don't forget to check out Patrick King's book, Improve Your Conversations, for a deeper
Speaker:dive into this concept.
Speaker:You can learn more at his site, bit.ly slash pkconsulting.
Speaker:We'll see you next Wednesday.
